IRC logs for TTFA2 meeting 2

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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Apr 13 14:02:02 2012

Apr 13 14:02:02 *	Now talking on #ttfa
Apr 13 14:02:05 <BenG>	hi
Apr 13 14:02:12 <penguin>	Ola
Apr 13 14:02:12 <mickfuzz>	hi there
Apr 13 14:02:37 <penguin>	Mick - what do u wanna talk about?
Apr 13 14:03:03 <mickfuzz>	a couple of things - but mostly getting a process and timescale for the ttfa leaflet in place
Apr 13 14:03:25 <mickfuzz>	and looking at the suggestion for booksprint 
Apr 13 14:03:34 <mickfuzz>	can we do it etc
Apr 13 14:03:48 <mickfuzz>	how about you guys
Apr 13 14:04:06 <penguin>	happy with that
Apr 13 14:04:09 <BenG>	happy to have the booksprint
Apr 13 14:04:34 <BenG>	we have art, we have writers and a focus for the release
Apr 13 14:04:46 <mickfuzz>	ok are you ok with the timing end of may?
Apr 13 14:04:53 <BenG>	yes
Apr 13 14:05:09 <penguin>	me too
Apr 13 14:05:18 <mickfuzz>	ok cool - I think if we set the date then at least a couple of others will make it
Apr 13 14:05:23 <mickfuzz>	and I think that's totally enough
Apr 13 14:05:32 <BenG>	more the better though
Apr 13 14:05:48 <mickfuzz>	for sure
Apr 13 14:06:01 <mickfuzz>	but no need to cancel if not i would say 
Apr 13 14:06:08 <penguin>	not inc u 2, 3 people have said they can make it so far
Apr 13 14:06:11 <mickfuzz>	i can only do the sunday - 
Apr 13 14:06:24 <mickfuzz>	but i can do the monday to finish things off if needed
Apr 13 14:06:57 <BenG>	sure me too
Apr 13 14:07:16 <BenG>	what where the exact dates?
Apr 13 14:07:47 <penguin>	26-7 may (plus Monday if we want)
Apr 13 14:08:15 <mickfuzz>	ok is it bank holiday?
Apr 13 14:08:52 <penguin>	no - it's the week before
Apr 13 14:09:08 <mickfuzz>	ok
Apr 13 14:09:24 <mickfuzz>	the other thing was about the scope of the booksprint - specifically for things that don't fit in the booklet
Apr 13 14:09:45 <penguin>	sat moe
Apr 13 14:09:52 <penguin>	say more even
Apr 13 14:09:59 <mickfuzz>	I'd like to do a 'hand outs' manual - to support workshops
Apr 13 14:10:08 <mickfuzz>	with step by step instructions for things
Apr 13 14:10:15 <mickfuzz>	some are already out there 
Apr 13 14:10:23 <mickfuzz>	eg for email and enigmail
Apr 13 14:10:38 <BenG>	the booksprint took about how long last time?
Apr 13 14:10:45 <BenG>	most of one day I think
Apr 13 14:10:58 <BenG>	so we should have time for something else
Apr 13 14:11:04 <penguin>	that's right, but ...
Apr 13 14:11:23 <penguin>	I've found it quite hard to get involved in the booklet...
Apr 13 14:11:43 <BenG>	what have been the boundaries penguin ?
Apr 13 14:12:06 <penguin>	I don't wanna be over critical, but I think it's quite a long way from plain english e.g.
Apr 13 14:12:23 <BenG>	not its very true
Apr 13 14:12:33 *	BenG tries again
Apr 13 14:12:46 <BenG>	penguin, i agree, its not plian english
Apr 13 14:12:46 <penguin>	I asked around 20 people about ip logging. none knew what it was. 
Apr 13 14:13:04 <mickfuzz>	ok that's a good focus 
Apr 13 14:13:16 <BenG>	that's a core focus
Apr 13 14:13:22 <BenG>	making it make sense
Apr 13 14:13:28 <penguin>	when I went on to ip address, none knew they had one so when we say 'we dont log IP add.@ it doesn't mean much
Apr 13 14:13:29 <mickfuzz>	can we have try to get a couple of non tech writers there
Apr 13 14:14:12 <mickfuzz>	When you visit a website, you leave a record of what is called your IP (Internet Protocol) address behind. This is unique to you and it is linked to the home address that the computer is being used at by your ISP (Internet Service Provider eg. BT or Virgin). The police, scammers or advertisers can use this information to find out who has looked at what site and when. Your web browser is also likely to be disclosing all sorts of information abo
Apr 13 14:14:12 <mickfuzz>	ut itself, and, by implication, about you too, without you knowing it.
Apr 13 14:14:30 <mickfuzz>	is what we have so far
Apr 13 14:14:35 <mickfuzz>	i'm sure that can be better
Apr 13 14:14:44 <BenG>	not too bad though
Apr 13 14:14:56 <BenG>	but yes, we need a much wider range of people there
Apr 13 14:15:11 <BenG>	writers and non-techs, proof readers
Apr 13 14:15:32 <BenG>	we should see what we have a as a raw template
Apr 13 14:15:54 <BenG>	a backbone onto which we needs build a animal
Apr 13 14:16:12 <penguin>	perhaps it's a ground rules issue
Apr 13 14:16:19 <BenG>	hmmm?
Apr 13 14:16:22 <mickfuzz>	there is a lot of good stuff from the website which can be reimported
Apr 13 14:16:43 <penguin>	non tech / plain eng. people feel comfortable in editing and tech writer feel comfortable in being edited.
Apr 13 14:16:56 <BenG>	yep
Apr 13 14:17:02 <BenG>	sounds like a good policy
Apr 13 14:17:10 <mickfuzz>	for sure
Apr 13 14:17:26 <BenG>	I think though that this sort of thing needs sorting out when we see who's there
Apr 13 14:17:44 <BenG>	we need to make sure everyone is in an environment where they can be productive
Apr 13 14:17:51 <mickfuzz>	ok so should we try to bring one non-tech writer each?
Apr 13 14:18:00 <BenG>	good aim, yes
Apr 13 14:18:34 <BenG>	good aim, yes/
Apr 13 14:18:43 <BenG>	could we have something to bribe them with?
Apr 13 14:18:55 <mickfuzz>	the illusion of kudos
Apr 13 14:18:58 <mickfuzz>	?
Apr 13 14:19:07 <mickfuzz>	cake?
Apr 13 14:19:18 <BenG>	"come to Oxford and let geeks try to explain difficult technical issues to you"
Apr 13 14:19:20 <mickfuzz>	badges?
Apr 13 14:19:44 *	BenG feels mickfuzz has a better line on reward schemes
Apr 13 14:20:20 <mickfuzz>	put it on your jobseekers cv as a mini-internship?
Apr 13 14:20:59 *	BenG back in a second, loo trip
Apr 13 14:21:15 <penguin>	i think there are some good plain writers in ttfa / HL
Apr 13 14:21:43 <mickfuzz>	not too plain I would hope :)
Apr 13 14:21:48 <penguin>	Charlie, Beth, and me (plus others i'm sure)
Apr 13 14:21:58 <mickfuzz>	I agree
Apr 13 14:22:23 <penguin>	I wonder if it's more about roles - some people have writing the orginal as a task, then others have editing as a tak
Apr 13 14:22:47 <penguin>	it always easier to edit other people's work rather than your own
Apr 13 14:22:55 <mickfuzz>	that's true
Apr 13 14:23:01 <BenG>	where you at the last booksprint penguin ?
Apr 13 14:23:11 <BenG>	all that stuff pretty much happened anyway
Apr 13 14:23:18 <mickfuzz>	i started a chapter here
Apr 13 14:23:20 <mickfuzz>
Apr 13 14:23:43 <mickfuzz>	on Notes for version 2 - which asks which chapters need serious writing
Apr 13 14:23:53 <mickfuzz>	or a bit of writing
Apr 13 14:24:02 <mickfuzz>	or just editing / pictures
Apr 13 14:24:28 <penguin>	BenG: yes - but as an observer really. I think what quite often happen was very tech people edited other very tech people
Apr 13 14:24:56 <penguin>	and there was lots of talk about not following the advise was mean you would die IIRC
Apr 13 14:24:56 <BenG>	but only they turned up
Apr 13 14:25:18 <BenG>	only techs turned up
Apr 13 14:25:28 <BenG>	and the talk was banter really
Apr 13 14:25:33 <mickfuzz>	ok so we need  a good invite - and probably personally ringing people up to ask them i reckon
Apr 13 14:25:37 <BenG>	a lot of words got edited
Apr 13 14:25:53 <penguin>	well, I know charlie's up for it, and so am i
Apr 13 14:26:20 <penguin>	perhaps if good editor cannot be there, we could ask if they might work from home and email them stuff?
Apr 13 14:26:48 <mickfuzz>	if they can do it real time that could work
Apr 13 14:27:03 <mickfuzz>	on the weekend
Apr 13 14:27:05 <BenG>	I still think booki sucks
Apr 13 14:27:12 <penguin>	+1
Apr 13 14:27:15 <BenG>	and would prefer to do it on mediawiki
Apr 13 14:27:21 <penguin>	+1
Apr 13 14:27:34 <mickfuzz>	i think it's very late to change the working process
Apr 13 14:28:03 <mickfuzz>	and there are a lot of advantages to doing it as part of that ecosystem
Apr 13 14:28:11 <BenG>	cutting pasting to our wiki is not a big problem
Apr 13 14:29:05 <mickfuzz>	moving to media wiki is a big problem for me 
Apr 13 14:29:09 <BenG>	and I've not seen any advantages to whatever ecosystem there is
Apr 13 14:29:19 <mickfuzz>	i can go into details 
Apr 13 14:29:33 <BenG>	you seem to be the only contribution who likes booki though mickfuzz 
Apr 13 14:29:42 <BenG>	you seem to be the only contributor who likes booki though mickfuzz 
Apr 13 14:30:24 <BenG>	sorry mickfuzz, it just sucks
Apr 13 14:30:37 <mickfuzz>	there's a lot of advantages to using booki
Apr 13 14:31:02 <mickfuzz>	output to epub, oo, html and pdf being one
Apr 13 14:31:48 <mickfuzz>	does media wiki have a wysiwig editor?
Apr 13 14:32:04 <BenG>	we've not found any advantage to the wide range output formats yet
Apr 13 14:32:10 <BenG>	since they are all badly formatted
Apr 13 14:32:25 <BenG>	you can plug a wysiwig editer into mediawiki
Apr 13 14:33:30 <BenG>	but you are not seriously suggesting that booki is wysiwyg
Apr 13 14:33:31 <BenG>	?
Apr 13 14:33:35 <mickfuzz>	so you'd rather develop a new publishing platform with lots of plugins than use one which is set up with all the content already in it
Apr 13 14:33:55 <BenG>	no, I'd rather use mediawiki
Apr 13 14:34:07 <BenG>	which is already set up, but doens't have the content in it yet
Apr 13 14:34:41 <BenG>	you've been trying to sell us booki for years now and its still generally disliked
Apr 13 14:34:57 <penguin>	I dont have an issue with using booki as a publishing platform ...
Apr 13 14:35:13 <BenG>	no me neither
Apr 13 14:35:14 <penguin>	it's as an editing platform that I don't like it
Apr 13 14:35:20 <BenG>	I just don't like using it
Apr 13 14:35:29 <BenG>	I've tried repeatedly
Apr 13 14:35:57 <penguin>	and in my limited experience, no platform does good automatic exporting to different formats
Apr 13 14:36:21 <mickfuzz>	ok - i'll give in
Apr 13 14:36:45 <mickfuzz>	but can you add a wysiwig to media wiki
Apr 13 14:36:48 <mickfuzz>	?
Apr 13 14:36:58 <penguin>	I'll have a go
Apr 13 14:37:03 <mickfuzz>	as that's very key for me
Apr 13 14:37:07 <BenG>	we already have one on hacktivista
Apr 13 14:37:18 <BenG>	simply click the "rich editor" button
Apr 13 14:38:19 <mickfuzz>	you can't upload an image - but ok it does work
Apr 13 14:39:09 <mickfuzz>	so i agree 
Apr 13 14:39:12 <mickfuzz>	but
Apr 13 14:39:15 <BenG>	I think mike turned that off, but ask him if he'll "fix" it
Apr 13 14:39:16 <mickfuzz>	can we do the companion hand out booklet on FM?
Apr 13 14:39:36 <mickfuzz>	as there is lots of material that can be remixed for it easily in FM
Apr 13 14:39:43 <BenG>	remixed?
Apr 13 14:39:56 <BenG>	can they sort of feed through, so our docs get updated?
Apr 13 14:39:59 <mickfuzz>	you can import another chapter from another book - and then edit it
Apr 13 14:40:18 <BenG>	but it then becomes part of yours and not updated from the source?
Apr 13 14:40:31 <BenG>	I think it would be good for us to be contributing to FM
Apr 13 14:40:34 <mickfuzz>	you get all the screenshots etc without having to reupload them 
Apr 13 14:40:57 <mickfuzz>	BenG agreed - that was really my main aim 
Apr 13 14:41:05 <BenG>	are there existing FM docs we could just expand/contribute too?
Apr 13 14:41:12 <mickfuzz>	lots
Apr 13 14:41:26 <BenG>	yes, but ones relevant to our festival handouts?
Apr 13 14:41:36 <mickfuzz>	i've linked to many in the existing booklet text
Apr 13 14:41:43 <BenG>	sure
Apr 13 14:41:47 <mickfuzz>	email is a big one, tor, 
Apr 13 14:41:55 <mickfuzz>	vpn 
Apr 13 14:42:08 <mickfuzz>	wordpress blogging
Apr 13 14:42:18 <mickfuzz>	audacity and ardour
Apr 13 14:42:32 <penguin>	is it useful to think of the handouts in 3 categories ...
Apr 13 14:42:49 <penguin>	1. stuff that doesn't exist, so we make it
Apr 13 14:43:05 <penguin>	2. Stuff that exists, but needs us to edit it
Apr 13 14:43:33 <penguin>	3. Stuff that exists and needs no changes (e.g. Enigmail quick start guide is good IIRC)
Apr 13 14:43:49 <mickfuzz>	sound great
Apr 13 14:44:39 <BenG>	mickfuzz, thanks for conceding on booki for the TTFA booklet, this feels an historic moment
Apr 13 14:44:47 <mickfuzz>	:) 
Apr 13 14:45:07 <mickfuzz>	can you do me a favour tho
Apr 13 14:45:22 <mickfuzz>	can you send feedback to the developers saying why this decisions was taken
Apr 13 14:45:25 <mickfuzz>	doesn't have to be long
Apr 13 14:45:28 <BenG>	and if it all goes much worse than the previous booksprint, you have full gloating rights
Apr 13 14:45:32 <BenG>	yes sure
Apr 13 14:45:36 <mickfuzz>	but longer than 'it sucks'
Apr 13 14:45:52 <BenG>	awww man, I have so much to say about WHY is sucks
Apr 13 14:45:57 <mickfuzz>	i'm sure it'll be 'easier' - as media wiki is very stable
Apr 13 14:46:23 <mickfuzz>	but it's a work in progress blah blah 
Apr 13 14:46:40 <BenG>	well there are advantages to booki I'll be sad to lose, like the per page chat and seeing who's editing
Apr 13 14:46:45 <mickfuzz>	anyway - it's all good - you guys evaluated it - it sucked - you gave feedback 
Apr 13 14:46:58 <mickfuzz>	they can then improve it
Apr 13 14:47:10 <mickfuzz>	:)
Apr 13 14:47:15 <BenG>	let's not go into it now
Apr 13 14:47:20 <mickfuzz>	sure
Apr 13 14:47:25 <BenG>	I'll provide a very depthful write up
Apr 13 14:48:10 <BenG>	where were we?
Apr 13 14:48:17 <mickfuzz>
Apr 13 14:48:20 <mickfuzz>	for ref 
Apr 13 14:48:33 <penguin>	so, here's what i think we have agreed ...
Apr 13 14:48:34 <mickfuzz>	3 types of hand out docs
Apr 13 14:48:46 <penguin>	1. Use mediawiki for editing
Apr 13 14:49:08 <penguin>	2. Have booksprint in last w/end of May
Apr 13 14:49:30 <BenG>	<mickfuzz> ok so we need  a good invite - and probably personally ringing people up to ask them i reckon
Apr 13 14:49:30 <BenG>	<BenG> a lot of words got edited
Apr 13 14:49:30 <BenG>	<penguin> well, I know charlie's up for it, and so am i
Apr 13 14:49:30 <BenG>	<penguin> perhaps if good editor cannot be there, we could ask if they might work from home and email them stuff?
Apr 13 14:49:30 <BenG>	<mickfuzz> if they can do it real time that could work
Apr 13 14:49:30 <BenG>	<mickfuzz> on the weekend
Apr 13 14:50:02 <mickfuzz>	or beforehand
Apr 13 14:50:07 <BenG>	yep
Apr 13 14:50:24 <BenG>	damn, I'm meant to be co-ordinator, this sounds like work
Apr 13 14:51:21 <penguin>	i'm happy to draft an invite email
Apr 13 14:51:21 <mickfuzz>	start copying and pasting :P
Apr 13 14:52:07 <penguin>	also assuming me to do logistics for the event (need to talk about that in a bit)
Apr 13 14:52:20 <mickfuzz>	k
Apr 13 14:53:11 <BenG>	how about now penguin ?
Apr 13 14:53:19 <BenG>	logistics?
Apr 13 14:54:05 <penguin>	so, i was hoping to make in a bit more minimal that other gatherings
Apr 13 14:54:11 <penguin>	so i can book space
Apr 13 14:54:23 <penguin>	and sort crash space
Apr 13 14:54:46 <penguin>	but i didn't want to get involved in food - there are loads of local places availabl;e
Apr 13 14:56:11 <mickfuzz>	i think that's fine
Apr 13 14:56:20 <penguin>	and I'm not as good a cook as protag!
Apr 13 14:56:47 <BenG>	maybe invite a cook too
Apr 13 14:56:58 <BenG>	but yes, it shouldn't be crucial to the gig
Apr 13 14:57:21 <penguin>	I'll have a word with Charlie - if you like chille
Apr 13 14:57:41 <BenG>	lunches would be handy to keep us going and avoid lunch faff
Apr 13 14:57:59 <BenG>	but it doesn't have to be your remit penguin 
Apr 13 14:58:35 <mickfuzz>	yes - we can play it by ear
Apr 13 14:58:39 <penguin>	on lunch, we could just get one person to get take out and bring it back
Apr 13 14:58:54 <BenG>	true
Apr 13 14:58:57 <mickfuzz>	or one person eat and bring it up
Apr 13 14:59:02 <mickfuzz>	sorry
Apr 13 14:59:06 <penguin>	not as cheap as self catering, but easier
Apr 13 14:59:33 <penguin>	mick: please go into the naughty corner and think about what you've said
Apr 13 14:59:40 <mickfuzz>	:)
Apr 13 15:00:07 <mickfuzz>	equipment list - do you need anything brought? 
Apr 13 15:00:12 <mickfuzz>	projector ?
Apr 13 15:00:16 <mickfuzz>	raveoke?
Apr 13 15:00:30 <BenG>	ah, now, that might be a selling point for non-techs
Apr 13 15:01:11 <mickfuzz>	no we need people who can read and write
Apr 13 15:01:17 <mickfuzz>	still
Apr 13 15:01:18 <penguin>	equip wise, i reckon we'll be fine. will let you know if not.
Apr 13 15:01:56 <mickfuzz>	about incentive
Apr 13 15:02:04 <mickfuzz>	book writing credit may help
Apr 13 15:02:10 <mickfuzz>	we didn't do that last time
Apr 13 15:02:30 <mickfuzz>	we should decide if we want to put in authours names
Apr 13 15:02:39 <mickfuzz>	as some people do care - esp writers
Apr 13 15:02:39 <penguin>	Ents wise (if that what raveoke is ;-P ) - do you think we should do our own thing, or just enjoy the public delights of oxford
Apr 13 15:03:10 <BenG>	again, play by ear, put the word out, see if people want to entertain maybe
Apr 13 15:03:17 <penguin>	" book writing credit may help" +1 if people want it. Same for illustrators
Apr 13 15:03:47 *	penguin loo break
Apr 13 15:05:19 <mickfuzz>	ok - of course optional credit if people want it
Apr 13 15:06:59 <penguin>	1 practical thing - oarc - the space i'm planning on using holds 15 people comfortably. 20 at a squeeze. that OK?
Apr 13 15:07:23 <penguin>	it's the same place as the last book sprint
Apr 13 15:07:28 <mickfuzz>	that's fine i'm sure
Apr 13 15:07:43 <BenG>	yeah 20 is fine
Apr 13 15:08:02 <mickfuzz>	when are you going to migrate the content Ben?
Apr 13 15:08:02 <BenG>	if we've got that many we've done exceptionally well
Apr 13 15:08:12 <mickfuzz>	i'd be happy with 5
Apr 13 15:08:13 <mickfuzz>	?
Apr 13 15:08:18 <mickfuzz>	:)
Apr 13 15:08:45 <mickfuzz>	actually just let me know when you are about to migrate it so I don't update the wrong one
Apr 13 15:08:54 <mickfuzz>	that's all i'm thinking
Apr 13 15:09:42 <mickfuzz>	anything else?
Apr 13 15:10:12 <penguin>	yeah, before i forget ...
Apr 13 15:10:20 <penguin>
Apr 13 15:10:56 <penguin>	cos i have a reputation to maintain
Apr 13 15:11:32 <BenG>	mickfuzz, when I've done the groundwork
Apr 13 15:11:44 <BenG>	I'll tidy the wiki and put up some guidelines for use
Apr 13 15:12:06 <BenG>	as one of the bad points with mediawiki is that its flexible and people get up to all sorts of stuff on there
Apr 13 15:14:10 <mickfuzz>	ok
Apr 13 15:14:28 <mickfuzz>	great stuf
Apr 13 15:14:35 <penguin>	i think we've covered everything?
Apr 13 15:15:06 <mickfuzz>	me too
Apr 13 15:15:51 <penguin>	anything else from you BG
Apr 13 15:16:26 <mickfuzz>	oh one thing
Apr 13 15:16:55 <mickfuzz>	have a look at the notes chapter at the beginning of the current manual
Apr 13 15:17:29 <mickfuzz>	lists the existing chapters and work needed 
Apr 13 15:17:39 <mickfuzz>	and the same thing for hand outs
Apr 13 15:17:46 <mickfuzz>	or hold on 
Apr 13 15:17:51 <penguin>	got a link?
Apr 13 15:17:51 <mickfuzz>	all copy and paste
Apr 13 15:18:01 <mickfuzz>
Apr 13 15:18:01 <BenG>	cheers all
Apr 13 15:18:06 <mickfuzz>	Notes for version 2
Apr 13 15:18:06 <mickfuzz>	 Put notes here for booklet and Hand Out resources
Apr 13 15:18:06 <mickfuzz>	Booklet
Apr 13 15:18:06 <mickfuzz>	Chapters in need of heavy rewriting
Apr 13 15:18:06 <mickfuzz>	Green computing
Apr 13 15:18:07 <mickfuzz>	Chapters that need some rewriting and checking
Apr 13 15:18:09 <mickfuzz>	Uploading Media to the Internet
Apr 13 15:18:11 <mickfuzz>	Mostly proofreading, adding images and link updating needed
Apr 13 15:18:13 <mickfuzz>	Securely Delete Files
Apr 13 15:18:15 <mickfuzz>	Hand out
Apr 13 15:18:17 <mickfuzz>	Hand outs that don't exist
Apr 13 15:18:19 <mickfuzz> Hands on guide / used in screenshots
Apr 13 15:18:23 <mickfuzz>	Handouts that exists, but needs us to edit them
Apr 13 15:18:25 <mickfuzz>	    Pidgin Off The Record
Apr 13 15:18:27 <mickfuzz>	    Anonymous Blogging - some as part of the WordPress chapter but needs editing down
Apr 13 15:18:29 <mickfuzz>	Handouts that exist and need no changes
Apr 13 15:18:31 <mickfuzz>	Enigmail quick start guide -
Apr 13 15:18:33 <mickfuzz>	>> so add to that if you have time
Apr 13 15:18:35 <mickfuzz>	nice one
Apr 13 15:18:37 <mickfuzz>	cya
Apr 13 15:18:40 *	BenG distracted by mum's internet trouble
Apr 13 15:18:58 *	penguin off to get sun. Cheers chaps
Apr 13 15:19:05 <BenG>	laterz
Apr 13 15:19:08 <mickfuzz>	bye
Apr 13 15:19:15 *	penguin has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
Apr 13 15:19:21 <BenG>	will let you know about ttfa migration son
Apr 13 15:19:24 <BenG>	soon
Apr 13 15:19:57 <mickfuzz>	cool
Apr 13 15:19:59 <mickfuzz>	cya
Apr 13 15:20:02 *	mickfuzz has quit (Quit: Leaving)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Apr 13 15:21:02 2012